From miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx
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Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:49:22 -0600
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From: Miguel de Icaza <miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx>
To: gnome-announce-list@gnome.org, gnome-list@gnome.org
Subject: gnome 0.13 is out.
X-Lost: In case of doubt, make it sound convincing
To help people get started with GNOME, we are making a *development
snapshot* of the GNOME source code. It is important to remind that
this is a development snapshot. I am doing this just to get people in
sync with what is going on with the gnome hackers. Most developers
are now using the Gnome CVS for their day to day work, so we have been
quiet about what is actually going on.
Since the last snapshot release (0.12), many things have changed, like
much stuff. The gnome distribution has been split into various
modules. You can now save some trees by downloading only those gnome
tar files that you actually want to look at.
We have tried to make the life of the GNOME compiler as easy as
possible, so we have removed the dependency as much as we could on the
Scheme/Guile interpreters. If you have those, that would be a plus,
if you do not, things will still compile anyways for you.
While doing all this, we got so happy that well, could not resist
throwing a dependency in, so to get Gnome to compile you need to have
Rasterman's gdk_imlib package installed (details on obtaining this are
available in www.labs.redhat.com and the library -ready to ftp- is on
ftp://ftp.labs.redhat.com/pub/imlib).
Here is a listing of the current GNOME modules that are being
released:
gnome-libs:
This is the foundation of every other gnome module.
Requires: Gtk 0.99.5 (latest), Raster's imlib and libxpm. The
more graphics libs you have, the better (for compiling
Gtk/XmHTML with as many drivers as possible).
gnome-core:
What we call the core module, aint we creative?
Requires: gnome-core and mico (only if you are interested in
the panel, which in this release is not as full features as
the previous version, as the hackers are busy revamping the
code). MICO is available in rpm and tar format from
ftp.labs.redhat.com (and from the original site as well).
It inludes the session manager, the panel, the new and
all-unsinkable help browser from Red Hat Labs and the desktop
properties programs.
gnome-graphics:
Famous for including just one program: Rasterman's electric
eyes image viewer. This version features drag and drop (you
still need something that would act as a drag source, and the
file manager is not included in this release)
gnome-games:
The game collection is here. Jonathan's multi-solitaire game
uses Scheme, so you probably want to have Guile installed to
play that one.
gnome-utils:
More enhancements to Radek Doulik's gtop program and
Eckehards's gtt - tres cool.
gnome-admin:
Includes Gregory's and Jochen's SNMP monitoring tool, and the
updated gulp program.
gnome-media:
The GnomoVision TV set from Alan Cox is now included. You
need a pretty recent version of your Linux kernel to get this one to
compile.
Non-tarified components:
------------------------
These are components that are not being released in tar format, you
need to use the AnonCVS to get to them (or download those from Jim
Pick's daily snapshots at http://gnome.jimpick.com):
gnome-guile:
This is not being released this time, as I was not able to
test it. It fails miserably to run for me on guile-1.2.
Probably I am supposed to be using some snapshot version of
guile, so I am not releasing this one until I figure out
exactly what is going on.
gnome-network:
Gnome/Talk is going to be dropped in favor of GNU/talk;
Scheme support is broken and gnome-ppp is far from finished,
so this was not released.
the file manager (http://mc.blackdown.org/)
yes, it is coming along nicely, but no, I did not have time to
test it nor am I packaging it for general use -yet-. You can
still use it if you pull it from the anoncvs repository (CVS
module name: "mc", see instructions on www.gnome.org for
details).
(I just found that there are a couple of glitches on the compile with
Obj-C, just ignore those programs that use Obj-C if they fail to
link).
As usual, we like good bug reports, but we will like you more if you
send us nice patches in diff -u format.
We are 2 hours, 15 minutes ahead of schedule at getting rid of
Microsoft windows, keep up the good work!
(oh, and yes, I would love Netscape to be dual licensed and have one
of the licenses be the GPL).
Miguel.
From miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx
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From: Miguel de Icaza <miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx>
To: gnome-list@gnome.org, gnome-list-announce@gnome.org
Subject: gnome 0.13 is hidden at
X-Unix: is friendly, it is just selective about who its friends are.
gnome 0.13 is hidden at:
ftp://ftp.nuclecu.unam.mx/GNOME
Sorry for not posting this information before.
Miguel.
From cls@seawood.org
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From: Christopher Seawood <cls@seawood.org>
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To: gnome-list@gnome.org
Subject: So what's the plan?
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Is there a "white-paper" of sorts that explains exactly what the planned
"released" gnome desktop will be and include? I've gone thru the web site
and read about the Style Guide, the plans for CORBA, about VFS, the
software map and the ideas that are being thrown around for apps to
include. But things that I (and others I'm sure) would like know are:
When will a stable end-user version projected to be out, ie 1.0?
(6 mons? 1yr?)
What will this release contain?
Standard gnome framework (ie, CORBA, VFS, Sound System, file manager,
desktop configurator, themes, panel, dnd)
Office suite (WP, spreadsheet, presentation pkg, database, money mgr)
Games (...)
The impression I have is that you want to give a standard look-n-feel for
any current (and future) applications.
Does this mean that there will be at least one GNOME version of each type
of application available?
Can anyone just throw together a gtk app making it conform to the Style
guide with all of the proper gnome specific features and be expected to be
included as part of the GNOME desktop?
There is already a list of things that people are currently working on
and a couple of hints of projects to come (GPresent?), but what are the
_required_ applications that need to be available before GNOME will be
considered "successful"? Successful in this context meaning that it
includes all of the applications needed for a standard end-user desktop.
- cls
From tromey@creche.cygnus.com
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To: Christopher Seawood <cls@seawood.org>
Cc: gnome-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: So what's the plan?
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980313143222.22604A-100000@panic.can.seawood.org>
X-Zippy: Hey, waiter! I want a NEW SHIRT and a PONY TAIL with lemon sauce!
X-Attribution: Tom
BCC:
Reply-To: tromey@cygnus.com
From: Tom Tromey <tromey@creche.cygnus.com>
Date: 13 Mar 1998 17:10:23 -0700
In-Reply-To: Christopher Seawood's message of Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:56:48 -0800 (PST)
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>>>>> "cls" == Christopher Seawood <cls@seawood.org> writes:
cls> Is there a "white-paper" of sorts that explains exactly what the
cls> planned "released" gnome desktop will be and include?
Not that I know of.
cls> When will a stable end-user version projected to be out, ie 1.0?
cls> (6 mons? 1yr?)
I doubt there is any sort of timetable. Free sw projects usually
don't have them. Some, like most FSF projects, never give them as a
matter of policy.
cls> What will this release contain?
I doubt there is an (existing) answer for this, either.
My feeling is that 1.0 should happen when the core code is stable
enough that we aren't afraid to have anybody use it.
The core code is the gnome-libs module (gnome libraries), the
gnome-core module (help browser, panel, session manager, and property
configurators), and mc (the file manager).
Maybe a window manager should be thrown in there. This depends on
somebody doing it.
Of course, this is just an arbitrary reaction on my part. But then,
your question really needs an answer to the real question: "What is
Gnome?".
cls> The impression I have is that you want to give a standard
cls> look-n-feel for any current (and future) applications.
Sure. But of course both the look and the feel will evolve over time.
For instance, right now there isn't a good way to handle the whole key
binding issue. When that is solved, it will result in a change to the
feel of all apps...
And look-n-feel isn't the only issue. The deeper ones have to do with
interoperation: using CORBA when appropriate, talking to the wm the
right way, talking to the session manager, supporting drag-n-drop.
These are the things that will tend to exclude random Gtk (or Motif,
or Qt, or Tk) programs from "full Gnome compliance". Getting the L&F
right is pretty easy, I'd bet, since we're more or less just following
Motif (+ some Windows stuff) at the buttons-n-menus level.
cls> Does this mean that there will be at least one GNOME version of
cls> each type of application available?
I hope so. But of course this won't happen in the first release. And
of course it depends on volunteer interest.
Of course, what it means to be a Gnome application is (I hope!)
somewhat nebulous. Clearly anything that uses the Gnome libraries,
etc, is one. But ultimately I'm more interested in interoperability
via CORBA... I personally think that forcing a particular
implementation technology isn't the greatest thing.
Still, that view probably isn't shared by all Gnome developers. And
in the short term I'd expect to see a very narrow definition of what
"Gnome" means. And in the long term I'd expect to find that it will
always be easier to write a "Gnome-compliant" (whatever that means)
application using the standard Gnome implementation technology: Gnome
libs, Gtk, MICO, etc.
cls> Can anyone just throw together a gtk app making it conform to the
cls> Style guide with all of the proper gnome specific features and be
cls> expected to be included as part of the GNOME desktop?
Sure, why not?
You'll find it easier to do some things if you use the Gnome
libraries. These are in a separate gnome-libs module precisely so
people can use them without having to check out and build all of
Gnome. Some of the things that are easier with these libraries:
proper argument parsing, session management, help interaction (maybe
not now, but certainly later on), standard dialogs and buttons.
cls> There is already a list of things that people are currently
cls> working on and a couple of hints of projects to come (GPresent?),
cls> but what are the _required_ applications that need to be
cls> available before GNOME will be considered "successful"?
cls> Successful in this context meaning that it includes all of the
cls> applications needed for a standard end-user desktop.
I wonder about this, too. Where does the desktop end? Maybe nowhere
-- and this is a question without an answer. Pragmatically, we'll be
done when the to-do list is empty. I.e., never.
Put another way, I don't think we'll ever reach a "success" point.
Success is an ongoing process. For instance, if gcc development were
to stop today, then in a year or two gcc would be a "failure" in an
important sense.
So instead I think we should just look at questions we can answer
(although not always in advance). "When should we do the next
release?". "Is <whatever> a good idea?" "Do we need program <quux>?"
The above is all IMHO, natch. I have no idea what the other Gnomers
think about this stuff.
Tom
From miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx
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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:34:43 -0600
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From: Miguel de Icaza <miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx>
To: cls@seawood.org
CC: gnome-list@gnome.org
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980313143222.22604A-100000@panic.can.seawood.org>
(message from Christopher Seawood on Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:56:48 -0800
(PST))
Subject: Re: So what's the plan?
X-Lost: In case of doubt, make it sound convincing
> When will a stable end-user version projected to be out, ie 1.0?
> (6 mons? 1yr?)
I expect the basic "core" applications to be ready sooner than that.
Probably one month. "core" applications means: application which
people can use in a daily basis to do their work and that will give
their desktop a pleasant look and a nice way to work. Do not know
what version tag that will carry.
> What will this release contain?
> Standard gnome framework (ie, CORBA, VFS, Sound System, file manager,
> desktop configurator, themes, panel, dnd)
This is what we have now and what I think will be available in debuged
form in the release from your list of questions:
corba, file manager, desktop config, panel, dnd and file manager with
vfs (this one is fully working since a couple of years ago :-).
Hopefully gdm will be soon released and can be included in that list.
To this list add some productivity-type applications that are already
written and functional: gtt, gtop, electric-eyes, gxsnmp, linuxconf
front-end, gnomovision, gmix, some cd-player and others as well as the
games collection.
themes are being worked on and will be integrated as the code becomes
available; The VFS has been splitted but I have not merged the code
into my tree yet (and so far, two non-gnome apps use the splitted vfs
code now).
> Does this mean that there will be at least one GNOME version of each type
> of application available?
Most likely.
> Can anyone just throw together a gtk app making it conform to the Style
> guide with all of the proper gnome specific features and be expected to be
> included as part of the GNOME desktop?
If it is released under a sane license, I do not see any problem with
including that as part of the GNOME desktop.
Bigger applications are being written, and I will let the authors of
thsoe big applications talk about them.
best wishes,
Miguel.
From marc@redhat.com
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To: gnome-list@gnome.org
Subject: GTK calendar widget for gnome-utils/gncal ?
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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:15:17 -0500
From: Marc Ewing <marc@redhat.com>
Anyone know where the calendar widget is that gncal uses?
make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/gnome-utils-0.13/gncal'
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -I/usr/include -I/usr/include
-I/usr/include/libgnomesupport -I/usr/lib/glib/include -I/usr/include
-I/usr/X11R6/include -I../../gcalendar -I/usr/lib/glib/include -I/usr/include
-I/usr/X11R6/include -O2 -m486 -fno-strength-reduce -c gncal.c
gncal.c:19: gtkcalendar.h: No such file or directory
-Marc
From tromey@creche.cygnus.com
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To: Marc Ewing <marc@redhat.com>
Cc: gnome-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: GTK calendar widget for gnome-utils/gncal ?
References: <199803170315.WAA01569@tasmanian.redhat.com>
X-Zippy: I guess you guys got BIG MUSCLES from doing too much STUDYING!
X-Attribution: Tom
BCC:
Reply-To: tromey@cygnus.com
From: Tom Tromey <tromey@creche.cygnus.com>
Date: 17 Mar 1998 00:41:56 -0700
In-Reply-To: Marc Ewing's message of Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:15:17 -0500
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Marc> Anyone know where the calendar widget is that gncal uses?
It is in `../../gcalendar/'. That is, it is outside the gnome-utils
module.
This is pretty gross. I think one of three things should be done:
1. Move gtkcalendar widget into libgnomeui
2. Move it into gncal
3. Move gcalendar into the gnome-utils module
(Prefer this if gcalendar is live code we plan to keep)
I don't have an opinion on which should be done. Somebody with more
knowledge of the details should fix this.
Tom
From sopwith@cuc.edu
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Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:54:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Elliot Lee <sopwith@cuc.edu>
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To: gnome-list@gnome.org
Subject: Gnome Status Report
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* Gnome Status Report *
March 17, 1998
"Good enough for use" rating (/10) follows program name (it's subjective,
but it may be helpful in figuring out what needs working on the most).
Nothing got 10/10 because nothing has docs (among other things).
Corrections & comments welcome.
(Comments in <> are Miguel's)
gnome-utils:
gtop 8.
Needs documentation and UI improvements.
A tree view would be very nice, as well as some stability
stuff (ie, not crashing if an app goes away).
genius 6.
Switching to scientific mode & back gives warnings:
** WARNING **: file gdkfont.c: line 195 (gdk_string_width): "string != NULL"
Also needs to resize properly, etc.
cromagnon 3.
Needs work (needs gnomifying, etc.). Rumors of a C
rewrite? <I do not know if Aldy is even working on this.>
find-file 5.
Needs gnomifying and UI improvements.
<The file manager includes a find-file command. Not as
powerful, but could be extended.>
gncal 3.
Right now it's just a wrapper for gtkcalender by the looks
of it. Snorfle wants to write his own calendar program,
so we may have to use bits from his in our own
program instead of having one solution.
gtt 8.
Performs intended function, but needs a final going-over.
notepad 4 (?).
Someone needs to get a properly working GtkText widget first ;-)
<It is working now.>
gnome-media:
gmix 8.
Needs UI improvements, upgrade to v 3.0 from Jens?
(3.0 is in the works but will be a good while.)
gnomovision 5.
Needs interface fixes, clipping code (this from Alan).
gnome-admin:
gulp 6.
Needs updating for newer obgtk.
gxsnmp 7.
Add optional gnomification.
linux-conf XXX.
Ask mkj
logview 0.
Currently core dumps after many gtk_style_copy warnings.
gnome-games:
aisleriot 0.
"guile: Stack overflow" on startup.
freecell 8.
Works, couple of non-essential warnings, needs icons & docs.
gnomine 8.
Needs docs. Score listing does not work.
mahjongg 6.
Comes up, looks pretty, but segv's when I look at the
'Game' menu.
phaser-chess 1.
What's the status of this game? It compiles, and sort
of starts up, but I know nothing more.
gnome-graphics:
ee 8
It's imlib's fault more than ee's, but it doesn't display
some .xpm's (i.e. mc/icons/mail.xpm). Despite raster's
protests about how xpm's are broken, someone needs to look
at the problem and fix it so ee can be a true xv replacement ;-)
Also IMHO the GUI needs to be a little more straight-forward
and obvious - putting things in four different windows
doesn't make sense.
<Agreed, and it should not be using a Raster-mini-font,
as it is difficult to read.>
ghost-gnome 0.
Anyone working on this?
<Completely dead right now.>
I might have a go at it.
gnome-network
gmailman 3.
Displays a basic interface and allows editing, but
doesn't perform its primary purpose (yet! :)
girc 4.
Works, and the back-end is there and largely debugged
(hah!) but needs a lot of UI work and all-around
solidifying.
gnome-ppp 3.
Displays a UI but (apparently) does nothing
gnometalk 0.
Doesn't compile here...
<Should be phased out in favor of gnu/talk>
gnome-objc
obgtk is slightly lagged behind. obgnome is an
"only what we need" wrapper of libgnome(ui). Bored ObjC
programmers welcome in both places.
<File manager: approaching very quickly "release" status.>
All apps still need:
Session manager support - possibly integrated with the
configuration routines in each app?
Get an easy-to-use (for both coders & users) context-sensitive
help setup.
Things that non-coders can do:
Documentation! Even if you can't write well,
having a little documentation is better than none at all.
Testing testing testing! Find a bug and send it to
gnome-list with [BUG] in the subject, and it will make
everyone's life easier.
Learn to code. ;-)
Hope this helps,
-- Elliot http://www.redhat.com/
Chicken Little was right.
From amundson@CompleteIS.com
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From: "Shawn T. Amundson" <amundson@CompleteIS.com>
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To: Elliot Lee <sopwith@cuc.edu>
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Subject: Re: Gnome Status Report
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On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Elliot Lee wrote:
>
> gncal 3.
> Right now it's just a wrapper for gtkcalender by the looks
> of it. Snorfle wants to write his own calendar program,
> so we may have to use bits from his in our own
> program instead of having one solution.
I think that is somewhat incorrect.
Gtkcalendar is being targetted for use in more than on application,
we just aren't that far along yet to put it in a library. My intended
use of the widget was gncal, as I don't have a specific need for it
yet anywhere else. (Can't speak for Cesar Miquel, he has his own uses
too.)
gcalendar which is in cvs was meant only as a test case for the
widget, but now we have some cool ideas for how we can extend it
into something more; none of these things even come close to what
gncal will be doing as a ical-type program.
There is no duplication thus far, only work in progress. ;-)
--
Shawn T. Amundson Complete Internet Solutions
Senior Systems Administrator Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
amundson@CompleteIS.com http://www.CompleteIS.com/~amundson
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forever;
From amundson@CompleteIS.com
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:38:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Shawn T. Amundson" <amundson@CompleteIS.com>
X-Sender: amundson@hugh
Reply-To: "Shawn T. Amundson" <amundson@CompleteIS.com>
To: tromey@cygnus.com
cc: Marc Ewing <marc@redhat.com>, gnome-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: GTK calendar widget for gnome-utils/gncal ?
In-Reply-To: <m13eghpxvf.fsf@creche.cygnus.com>
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On 17 Mar 1998, Tom Tromey wrote:
> Marc> Anyone know where the calendar widget is that gncal uses?
>
>
> It is in `../../gcalendar/'. That is, it is outside the gnome-utils
> module.
>
> This is pretty gross. I think one of three things should be done:
>
> 1. Move gtkcalendar widget into libgnomeui
Gtkcalendar is not a gnome widget, it is a gtk widget. (It scares
me how much gnome people don't respect this difference.) There are
also some licensing issues I need to address with lib_date; I have a
copy I can distribute LGPL. (the copy in cvs is still the GPL
or Artistic) The widget will be distributed with GTK 1.1 and
later or off in another widget collection distributed right along
side GTK on the ftp site.
> 2. Move it into gncal
Gtkcalendar is not gncal specific; but copying it may be the
best short term solution. (Not to libgnomeui though please.)
I will update gncal after major enhancements to the widget
if it is copied there.
> 3. Move gcalendar into the gnome-utils module
> (Prefer this if gcalendar is live code we plan to keep)
Certainly we will want a productivity module or some such
thing for gncal, gtt, gcalendar, addressbook, project
manager, etc., etc... I think of the find program when
I think utils.
Right now, however, I need gcalendar and the gtkcalendar
widget to stay where they are because I don't have disk space
to keep compiling gnome on my machine. (gcalendar is very
small and easy for me to work with, and so far it has been
going quite well ;-)
--
Shawn T. Amundson Complete Internet Solutions
Senior Systems Administrator Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
amundson@CompleteIS.com http://www.CompleteIS.com/~amundson
while (i) { last }
i, do exist.
forever;
From miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx Thu May 11 23:51:53 2000
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:10:11 -0600
Message-Id: <199803190510.XAA03445@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx>
From: Miguel de Icaza <miguel@nuclecu.unam.mx>
To: gnome@athena.nuclecu.unam.mx
Subject: file manager
X-Info: When in doubt, blame the network
Hello guys,
We are running short of todo-items on the file manager now. Which
makes me enormously happy. Right now it is pretty usable for most day
to day administration work, the desktop code is getting more solid.
I think it is usable, if you want to try it out, just checkout
module "mc" from the cvs repository.
best wishes,
Miguel.